Mar 12 2008
Seven New Deadly Sins???
According to the Vatican, there are now seven more deadly sins. The first seven were updated due to the modern world being one of globalization where many modern practices were ambiguously sinful in the minds of Catholic followers. See the CNN interview here. The seven new sins are:
Excessive Wealth
Genetic Engineering
Drug Dealing
Pedophilia
Social Injustice
Abortion
Pollution
What do you think about this? If you were to have added seven sins to the list, what would you have made them? Do you think these seven should be on the list? Do you think these seven are even sinful? Does this mean Morgan Freeman and Brad Pitt will be returning for a sequel?
It’s funny in a way - the church has to explain that these are and present them to a modern world. I like the fact they are all over the map on this one and even throw in pollution - how 21st century of them. This list would mean more to me if it came out 20 years earlier (then it might even sound prophetic).
The one on there that is vague is the excessive wealth aspect - I would need clarification on that to be sure what they mean concerning it - in general - I agree. Mainly due to the inequalities caused by 5% of the western people owning 95% of the money - it’s a startling statistic once we think through it and how it effects the well being of total society.
I’d be interested to hear a Catholic’s viewpoint on this whole issue - since for me - this does nothing for my faith.
You have it all wrong. This is not new teaching but the rumination of a Vatican official during a magazine interview. You and the Catholic Church are both victims of irresponsible reporting.
See here: http://conservativecolloquium.wordpress.com/2008/03/12/there-are-no-new-deadly-sins/
Yes, Mike, I believe every one of those are sinful. But, I must admit, I never really thought the first seven were enough. I think we’re a bit too easy with our definition of sin. Doesn’t all sin cause death? I mean, honestly, in the grand scheme of things, eating a piece of fruit doesn’t seem all that bad…but it was the ultimate!
The concept of “sin” remains, to me, one of the most mystifying and bizarre concepts in Christian faith.
I think it is very interesting how many Christians I know who try to distance Christianity from more mystical faiths (Hinduism, Buddhism, many tribal faiths). I think this is a standard desire of “Westernized” peoples: to separate themselves from what appears to be less civilized or less logical.
But is very hard for me to separate the notion of sin from any number of ideas in mysticism.
Kyle, I think your viewpoint is interesting. I’ve never thought of a life without sin as possible - am I reading you correctly?
I see the answer to sin as the essence of mystical. That Christ bore all of our sins on the cross, and then imputed me with His righteousness…it’s totally a mystery in my mind.
Michelle, I was saying more that a lot of Christians I know try to present their point of view as totally realistic and, duh, obvious, when things like sin, which is obviously still a big part of modern Christianity, seem so incredibly powered by “magic” or mysticism.
but that’s interesting, too. A world without sin. This would explain why I liked the His Dark Materials series of books so much, I guess.
I don’t see a world without sin as ever a possibility, until Messiah chooses to banish Satan with all his minions (daemons) to Hell. Of course, then we’ll still have our own sinful natures to deal with, and no excuse, “the devil made me do it!”
You do know, if you liked the trilogy by Pullman, then we are certainly coming from two opposite views.
Excessive Wealth, Drug Dealing, Social Injustice, and Pollution could each easily be attributed to Greed, though the specifics may very well be more applicable to our time.
Genetic Engineering is probably there because human beings are made in God’s Image; we are all sacred just as we are. Though I wonder if “Genetic Manipulation” might have been a better term because I certainly don’t see anything wrong with using genetics to treat disease–so long as nobody ever makes the immense mistake of considering my genetic hearing loss a disease, a flaw, or some sort of abnormality because I happen to like me the way I am, thanks.
Pedophilia should have been on the list 1,771,561,854,972,203,957,324,843,596 years ago.
Abortion? Well…
I don’t think we have to come from opposing points of view, actually. Pullman’s books were fantasy, and they remain just that: totally unreal. I liked his books for the interesting angle from which he approached concepts like “sin.” It’s one of the first books I ever read that tried to imagine what sin might actually be. I also love Slaughterhouse 5 and The Oath. but I don’t necessarily think the world they show is real or even ideal.
I think the idea of sin is a very interesting one. Equally interesting is people’s desire to mark those who have sinned or are sinners. Coming from my point of view, it looks like this: Sin is an insubstantial thing that settles into us at birth and never leaves us. Even in death we still carry it, and we are only forgiven it if we sort of grabbed the right truth claim in life.
How do you view sin?
Kyle: I think we’re born into it - or it’s passed on to us through being made in the likeness of Adam.
What do you mean by insubstantial? No substance or inconsequential? I think we can see sin in one another and do sinful acts in our daily living - I see it as tangible - and I see it as separating us from God.
I do think I can be declared righteous - clean - ’saved’ from my sin and live through the power of the Holy Spirit to overcome sin. Not that I will live a sinless life while in the flesh, but I believe at death I will be perfectly sinless.
Sorry, I assumed too much through your love of Pullman’s books. I do not agree with his worldview. I assumed yours was the same.
“Equally interesting is people’s desire to mark those who have sinned or are sinners.”
Yes, it is. Deliberately and divisively or with subtlety and ignorance. Especially when that sinner is forgiven.
Actually, it’s more than “interesting” to me. Because it has happened TO me.
If we all could just accept that we are sinners…who has any right to point the finger? What a world!
“What do you mean by insubstantial? No substance or inconsequential?”
Insubstantial here meaning non-physical. It’s not like a scarlet letter we wear, for example. It’s something beyond our senses.
#11.
For Catholics it is not our job to point out the sin of others but to acuse ourselves of our sin in the sacrament of confession. Other than Hester Prinn, I am not sure how Christians according to you mark others as sinners.
“Other than Hester Prinn, I am not sure how Christians according to you mark others as sinners.”
While I don’t know who Hester Prinn is, there is a critical abuse of many Christians who look down their noses at non-Christians and esteem themselves because their lives don’t “look” as holy as their own. Fundamentalists are the most notorious (a la the “God Hates Fags” spawn at Westboro Baptist “Church”), but it is not limited to them. It’s often more subtle. It’s also pretty ridiculous to do since Christians have the supernatural help of the Holy Spirit to pull their head out of their butt. To tout their accomplishments over the lacking of those without this help is not only arrogant, but foolish.
Kyle,
“How do you view sin?”
GREAT question… Cornelius Plantinga has a great book called, “Not the Way it’s Supposed to Be: A Breviary on Sin.” I highly recommend it. It’s theological but also incredibly accessible (which is why I can even understand it).
In short, I would define sin as “rebellion.” It is disobedience from God, much as a child disobeys a father. This heavenly father (unlike some earthly fathers) is guaranteed to have our best interests in mind, so he’s not like a nun threatening us with a ruler if we don’t behave. It has a reason.
The Law (The Torah, including the Ten Commandments) in the Old Testament describes this “right relationship” with God (what it looks like not to sin). While many view it as a set of codes we MUST follow to earn God’s love, it is more of a map that shows us practically how to live in God’s Household. We were never meant to be able to keep it after the Fall and before the consummation (completion) of God’s redemptive plan.
Fr. J. - I don’t know much about catholic teaching, but I do hear your sentiment in Jesus’ words concerning the plank in our own eye. We each have so much to deal with personally, how do we have time to worry about others? As a mother, I do try to help my children see what is right vs. wrong and how their attitudes affect others, but I leave the work of conviction to the Holy Spirit.
Kyle - I wasn’t sure from your original and subsequent comments that you felt ’sin’ could be known. I think we wallow in sin so much that we can’t always recognize it. I think the whole planet groans at the state of fallenness we are in - I’m ready for the redemption of all to take place.
Brad - In short, amen!
Oh, and Brad, Hester Prinn was the main character in The Scarlet Letter. You should read it - it’s one of my favorites!
“Oh, and Brad, Hester Prinn was the main character in The Scarlet Letter. You should read it - it’s one of my favorites!”
*smacks forehead* Gotcha. I have read it, and loved it, but it was back in High School and it has been more than a few years. I get it now. Thanks!
Michelle, we at Per Christum are new at WordPress–just moved over from Blogger. We are liking WordPress a lot, and I am especially enjoying the crossover conversations through the TagSurfer function. I keep bumping into you and always enjoy what you have to say.
Brad, sorry for the obscure reference. I’m showing my age. Do they even teach the Sc. Lr. anymore? I used to attend an evangelical church for a couple of years back in the 80’s. I do remember some social phenoms I have not experienced in the Catholic Church. This was a somewhat charismatic church at the time and people were always asking each other (keeping track?) who had received which gifts of the Holy Spirit. It seemed a source of some envy/pride issues. As fodder for gossip, I can see how that might be a kind of “marking” as you say.
My experience is that Catholics pretty much leave each other alone when it comes to spirituality. Some are charismatic, some rosary, some social justice, some praise and worship. It is a smorgaas board. I dont recall people discussing other people’s sins, which is not to say it doesn’t happen.
Fr.J., I’m glad you made the move - I enjoy reading your perspective as well.
Could it be Catholics don’t discuss it because y’all readily admit it? I grew up being taught I was to reach a place of sinlessness - so we were always trying to look better than everyone else. Talk about pride!
Catholics pretty much presume that sin is a given in life, though we are to strive to avoid it and whatever leads to it. It is common for Catholics to say that we can remain free of sin for about 30 minutes or less after going to confession. Thinking mean thoughts is sinful. Impure thoughts are sinful. Cursing is sinful. Lying, gossip, etc. etc. It would be almost impossible to get through a day without committing sins. It is necessary to confess when we have committed a serious sin, but while in the box we confess everything we can remember. It is good for the soul. Guilt is a compass. So, yes, I think Catholics do not expect to be perfect, only to be made so.
“It is common for Catholics to say that we can remain free of sin for about 30 minutes or less after going to confession.”
It took me until 25 to recognize I would not sin every day. But then we only had one definition - an intentionally willful act of disobedience against God - like shaking your fist at Him. My grandfather died saying he didn’t think he had committed a sin since the day he was sanctified. I came from an heretical teaching that you could become sinless before heaven - my grandfather was a preacher in that denomination.
Praise God I have learned what the Bible actually says, and quit quoting my grandfather or our churches ‘’special rules.” I sin, I know I sin, but I have an advocate through Christ to the Father and now I readily confess and He cleanses me from all unrighteousness.
I think I’m preaching to the choir - I’ll stop now.
“It took me until 25 to recognize I would sin every day…”
I keep making huge errors like that which totally change my point…I’m sure y’all caught it, but still can’t help but correct myself.
23.
LOL. I must have read that line a dozen times. Thanks for the clarification.